The Pessimist and the Optimist
(Plato has invited Sir Thomas More in his abode for an intellectual discussion)
Plato(P)
Sir Thomas More(T)
T: Hello, and thank you for having me this evening.
P: Greetings to you too. The pleasure is all mine as I do enjoy having these discussions that contribute to our understanding of the world.
T: Even so, I mean, a person of your stature couldn’t possibly have the leisure to entertain a fellow like me.… Read the rest here
Plato and More meet to discuss the idea of democracy as a form of government.
Plato: A democracy being a proper form of government – you cannot be serious Thomas.
More: Yes I am quite serious. It will allow for the country to prosper and for the citizens to elect officials and create a society full of happiness.
P: Democracy is a joke and does not work. Look at the state and Greece and Athens right now.… Read the rest here
Thomas More and Plato, two old friends, run into one another at a Starbucks one day.
Plato: Is that—It can’t be… Thomas More?! Long time no see! How long has it been? Five years?
More: Plato! Wow good so see you, how have you been?
P: Not so good actually. My teacher, Socrates was unjustly executed for his teachings, or as they put it “corrupting of young minds.”
M: Yeah man I heard about that. I’m so sorry.… Read the rest here
Two men are seated in the middle of a room. One of them- draped in a thick, fur coat with a silk sash resting neatly on the shoulders- appears to be at ease. Sitting up straight in his chair, he glances over at the other man and offers a soft, almost cautious nod. There is a pause, as his balding, toga-clad companion mulls over the gesture. He seems undecided. Then, after a long silence he lifts his chin and returns the motion.… Read the rest here
Lehrer: Good evening, gentlemen. Your first topic tonight is Democracy. Plato, you go first.
Plato: Thank you, Jim. I am not and have never been a supporter of Democracy. Democracy is the result of the poor overthrowing the rich and killing or driving them out. Afterwards positions will be handed out to everyone and their cousin with no thought as to whom is fit for which job. There is complete freedom for the people. This freedom to say and do as they please will result in the population being extremely diverse, with no one filling his or her role.… Read the rest here
Religion and Utopias
In their works on utopian societies, Plato and More believe that religion is key to the function of a society. They suggest that religious beliefs affect the morality of a society’s members and thus the preservation of the society itself. While Plato believes in “gods” and that society members should strive to attain the Form of the Good, a strict moral code, More believes that although many religious sects can exist in a society, society members should acknowledge one true deity.… Read the rest here
I would like to examine where culture comes from. Plato argues that they come from education and government-organized social conditioning, and More seems to say that they come from leadership; it was, after all, Utopus that set the tone for a culture of acceptance and tolerance of different beliefs in Utopia. Marx, by contrast, argues that the economy is the root of all culture; every element of our culture and society is really a tool for and product of bourgeois power.… Read the rest here
Sam Wittmer
One of the interesting characteristics of two fictional Utopian societies, Thomas More’s Utopia and Plato’s Republic, is that in these model societies there is a recognized inequality among the people. In the setting we live in, one infatuated with the idea of equality, it may seem surprising to know that these philosophers believed that a perfect society would have people that were better than others. The relationships of ruler to subject, in The Republic and Utopia, are based upon a group of the elite presiding, not forcefully, over another group that the society has been determined to be in a different position, with each party doing their duty for the gain of the State.… Read the rest here
Plato’s “The Republic” and More’s “Utopia explore the possibilities of creating an ideal state. In an idea state however, there must be some sort of regulation among the masses, and this comes from a relationship between a ruler and those that are ruled. Although they each concede that it is necessary for their state to have a ruler and those who are ruled, it is Plato’s search for the perfect soul that compels him to create a rigid system of leadership under the philosopher kings and it is More’s desire to create a superior nation that drives him to construct a fluid class system allowing the rise of a ruler.… Read the rest here
In forming an ideal society, having common moral values among the population is a necessity. In order to sustain an idyllic state, each citizen must have a strong moral compass that does not conflict with others. In both Utopia and The Republic, More and Plato emphasize education as an important factor in generating a common moral code. Both emphasize the importance of morality, but then describe deceptive and indecent strategies used by the state to manipulate citizens.… Read the rest here